The switch-gear is unsafe (in some circumstances)

[ZigMerid]

I was riding home last night on country roads and it was cold and dark. Not my favourite thing to do but I had no choice in this case.

And operating the switch-gear with cold hands in winter gloves and no external lighting was a nightmare! Even with the heated grips working overtime.

And I got to thinking that this seems like a new problem as I don't recall the same issue with my past steads.

It dawned on me that the switch-gear on modern motorcycles is so much more condensed and complicated than it used to be with Tracers being at the forefront with no less than eleven, that's right, eleven contact points operated by the left hand alone. I count the indicator as one contact point, the high-beam rocker switch as two contact points and the cruise-control as three contact points.

Furthermore, with cold hands and thick gloves it's virtually impossible to readily determine the appropriate switch yet alone which of the contact points you are on. So basically I spent half the ride disabling cruise-control when I wanted to hit low-beam for an on-coming vehicle and half the ride honking the horn when I wanted to adjust cruise-control. I still don't know what I accidentally changed on my ride and suspension modes... Maybe amusing to others, but not much fun for me.

And, frankly, it felt quite unsafe fumbling around for low-beam with an on-coming vehicle on a narrow, winding country road with a potential 200km impact velocity. And we all know what happens if you don't dim your high-beams in time - you get blasted by the on-coming. Definitely not safe.

My previous motorcycle was a basic 2010 model and before that a 2001 and so on back; those motorcycles had three or at most four contact points which were much better spatially separated and thus very hard to get wrong. That's why I never experienced the problem previously - the old-school switch-gear was much simpler and much easier to work by feel.

We're not going back in time so my thought is that switch-gear needs to be illuminated in some way so that each contact point can be readily identified at a glance. If I can see the cruise-control "+" illumination go dark then it'll be easy to see that my thumb has covered it and nothing else.

Oddly, illuminated switch-gear is the norm for cars and I have bought many after-market automotive switches for various purposes and the price difference for an illuminating switch is minimal, so cost surely must be pretty minimal for a $20K motorcycle.

My conclusion is that the Tracer switch-gear can be unsafe and is not fit for purpose in what should be considered reasonable riding scenarios.

Don't get me wrong. I think the Tracer is great and all those fancy features are part of the reason I bought one. But that ride opened my eyes to how much risk that complexity has created with no obvious mitigating design features.

[betoney]

Add this to the list of reasons that I never ride at night.

I may be wrong but I believe the '24 model now has illuminated switch gear.  Anyone confirm this?

[robzilla]

Agree 100% on moto switches needing some backlight or illumination. I also don't ride at night but on the occasion when I'm in the transition from sunset, I've had that same feeling on looking for switches even though my instinct tells me where its at. 

It has me thinking maybe I can install that unused car dash lights I bought on Amazon for the family car and instead use it on the moto. New farkle project in the works....

 

[Chowda]

Lighted buttons would be nice. I ride home from work at night and have the switch button placement memorized. However, I haven't ridden with cold weather gloves yet either. I could see that being an issue.

[jthayer09]

12 hours ago, ZigMerid said:

I was riding home last night on country roads and it was cold and dark. Not my favourite thing to do but I had no choice in this case.

And operating the switch-gear with cold hands in winter gloves and no external lighting was a nightmare! Even with the heated grips working overtime.

Agreed at this point every motorcycle should have illuminated switchgear, and my current bike has that feature. But it sounds like the majority of your issue is the winter gloves. I almost exclusively rode only at night all 4-seasons from 2015-2021 as I worked night shift with a 35-minute commute each way and never had problems to the extent you're describing; first on the FJ09 then on my Tracer 9. Sure it was mildly inconvenient to take a second to feel and confirm if my thumb was on the hi/lo-beam rocker or the CC, but it wasn't "virtually impossible" to find my controls nor was I ever "fumbling around" trying to find the correct switch.

If your winter gloves are fully insulated (back and front of hand + fingers) it is certainly going to destroy any tactile feeling you want from your digits, it also forces you to turn up your heated grips in order to get the heat through the insulation. I'm assuming you are wearing fully insulated gloves because if you weren't, you'd be scorching your hands with the heated grips on max, especially if you're using the Yamaha factory grips. Anyone riding a bike with heated grips should be using gloves that do not have insulation on underside of the hand and fingers so your heated grips can actually do their job and you can retain tactile feeling in your digits. You can have your cake and eat it too.

Not trying to invalidate your feeling of unsafeness, it's valid and definitely appropriate. Riding in the cold and at night isn't for everyone. But the switches aren't moving around or playing whack-a-mole while you ride, regardless if you can see them or not they are in the same place, and you know they're there. The variable that changed is your connection to the controls. You might feel more confident with different gloves and more familiarity with the bike.

But yeah, illuminated switchgear on all motorcycles should just be the standard at this point, and the MY'21-'23 Tracer does have a lot of touch points that could've been more intelligently placed. The '24 Tracer did get a switchgear redesign using a joystick for quick settings and separating the remaining physical buttons into two distinct vertical columns, so clearly the "too many buttons" feedback was there.

[ZigMerid]

I was comparing notes with a friend's new Triumph Tiger and it turns out that their switch gear *is* illuminated and the high-beam/low-beam selection is completely separated from the other switches and is actually operated by your index finger rather than the thumb.

All I could say to that is "Harrumph". Triumph have obviously done a much better job than Yamaha in that regard.

Relatedly, mine is a '23 and I thought someone mentioned that the '24 Tracer (or maybe it's just the 9+) has rearranged switch gear. Can anyone confirm that? Also I presume that '24s are still not illuminated. Yes, no?

[dazzler24]

2 hours ago, ZigMerid said:

I was comparing notes with a friend's new Triumph Tiger and it turns out that their switch gear *is* illuminated and the high-beam/low-beam selection is completely separated from the other switches and is actually operated by your index finger rather than the thumb.

All I could say to that is "Harrumph". Triumph have obviously done a much better job than Yamaha in that regard.

Relatedly, mine is a '23 and I thought someone mentioned that the '24 Tracer (or maybe it's just the 9+) has rearranged switch gear. Can anyone confirm that? Also I presume that '24s are still not illuminated. Yes, no?

This from the AU Yamaha website referring to the 9+ : -

"New ergonomic handlebar switch clusters 
Newly designed handlebar switch assemblies employing a joystick and home button enable the rider to operate the wider range of functions, including smartphone connectivity and navigation. Both the right and left side clusters feature a clear, logical layout and simple design – and their ergonomic layout gives smooth thumb movement for easy and intuitive operation. The switch clusters are back-lit for easier identification and use in the dark."

[2and3cylinders]

But even the later year Ktoom RC390 has backlit switches!!!

The new CFmoto chicom imports likewise have a lit target for your brain and thumb...

So how much extra could illuminated switches cost.

At least for those of us who ride at night and wear white!

[sirepair]

Hopefully OEM thoughts like this will help. No good for current owners though.  But this one doesn't appear to be backlit.

https://global.yamaha-motor.com/news/2024/0725/newsletter.html

[ZigMerid]

19 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

So how much extra could illuminated switches cost

Yeah. Almost nothing in the scheme of things. It's a serious faux pas by Yamaha which they've obviously rectified in the '24 GT+ 

I have to say this is the one thing I'm not happy with wrt to my '23 GT.

Not a serious enough issue to consider a '24 and besides, at least in my region they only offer the GT+ which has a lot more farnarkles at far greater expense that I don't really care for.

The big lesson for me is just to be more aware of the issue: a bit better planning to avoid night rides on sketchy roads; maybe a bit more care about glove choices and possibly some practice moves during daylight hours to enhance muscle memory.

[kilo3]

How many buttons are you pressing at night?
I mean the turn switch sure, but that should be muscle memory by now.
High low beams sure, that's one switch to learn.

Frankly I do not like lighted switch gear, in fact i wish most modern cars as well had a dark mode in which all buttons besides the dash would turn off at will.

Makes driving at night much easier and easier on the eyes as your not catching local reflections off your glasses/visor.

5 hours ago, ZigMerid said:

Yeah. Almost nothing in the scheme of things.

Well when you use the same switch gear across the board and stick with it for many years, yeah that is quite a lot of money.
Just look at the pumpkin turnlights yamaha used for.. what 20 years?
They've used the same wheel for how long now?

[roadwarrior]

5 minutes ago, kilo3 said:

How many buttons are you pressing at night?
I mean the turn switch sure, but that should be muscle memory by now.
High low beams sure, that's one switch to learn.

Adaptive high beams would be a nice feature for motorcycles. I have them (along with automatic headlights) on my car and once set, will never have to touch the headlight control again.

Of course, I wouldn't want to pay for it and would complain about the cost.