Bike Won't Start

[MarvisJablonski]

Greetings everyone. I have a 2015 FJ-09 with about 29,000 miles on the odometer.

I went to start my bike 2 nights ago (Tuesday 10/12/2021) and it wouldn't start. I could hear the starter motor turning but the engine didn't fire. I have at least a quarter tank of gas but I hadn't ridden the bike in 16 days, so I assumed the battery had gotten low. I connected a battery tender and came back the next day. But the bike still didn't start. I noticed that the oil light would illuminate while the starter motor was engaged. I don’t know whether this is normal.

Here's where I start guessing what the problem might be...

I changed my oil back on Monday 8/30/2021 but I ran into some weird issues in the process. After draining out the oil (I'm pretty certain all the oil had drained out, but maybe I hallucinated this part) and replacing the oil filter with a new one, I replaced the drain bolt and started filling up with fresh oil. According to the owner's manual, it should take 2.7L of oil with a new filter. By the time I had poured in about 2.3L, oil started overflowing out of the hole where you fill the oil. It's entirely possible that I just have no idea how to measure oil, but I concluded that I had overfilled the oil. So I did the trick with the spray bottle attachment in order to pump out excess oil. After about 90 minutes of pumping the spray bottle, I could see in the sight glass that the oil level was within the tolerance. So I started the bike up and ran it for about 5 minutes and then I let the bike cool down for another 7ish minutes and the oil was still within the tolerance.

I then went on a multi-day road trip of about 700 miles. The bike ran beautifully. The engine temperature consistently read around 160 degrees F on the thermometer. I even checked the oil sight glass a few times during the trip and the oil level appeared to be within the tolerance.

Then today as I was trying to start the bike, I checked the oil sight glass and it appears to be completely full of oil and the oil appears to be dark in color (photo attached).

So what I’m guessing happened is that somehow I managed to put too much oil in the bike. I may have failed to measure the oil properly and/or I may have been hallucinating when I looked at the sight glass and saw what I thought was the oil level within the correct tolerance. I’m guessing the excessive oil destroyed my spark plugs (and possibly more components, up to and including maybe the whole motorcycle?).

Here’s where I speculate on what I might be able to do to fix the problem…

I think I need to drain out the oil and err on the side of putting way too little oil in when I’m refilling it. I also think I need to take the bike apart to get at the spark plugs and probably put new ones in.

I’ve googled around trying to figure out what to do to fix things if you put in too much oil and the only thing I can find is people saying “Don’t put in too much oil! It’s bad! Don’t do it!” but I haven’t been able to figure out what problems this actually causes and whether there is any recourse for fixing said problems? Or am I just completely SOL and I need to buy a new motorcycle? Or better yet, given my utterly worthless mechanical skills, maybe I should just abandon my bike in an alley somewhere and never even think about riding again?

I doubt anyone will read this post, but I welcome any and all feedback! Thanks.
 

[Jfundo]

Plenty of people will read this post!  We love mysteries.  I'll be the first to suggest that the oil level is a red herring, but lets start there anyway.  If you were very much overfilled, maybe it got into the cylinders.  My first suggestion is to pull the spark plugs and see if maybe they got fouled.  Try to start the bike, then pull the plugs.  If they are gummed up, then you fouled them.  If they are completely dry, then you aren't getting any fuel and is unrelated to your oil issues.

If the plugs are fouled, replace them.  Fix the oil level, then you are good to go.  You will probably blow out a ton of smoke for a couple minutes. 

I doubt

you trashed your motor by having an extra quart of oil so don't worry about that. 

[knyte]

A couple of things come to mind.

First, oil level in the sight glass is with the bike standing, not on the sidestand.

If this photo is of an upright bike, it's definitely overfull.  Your oil should be between the lines, which would be roughly here:

It's likely FAR faster to pull the drain plug to rid the excess.

Next, ensure the Run/Stop switch is on Run, then insert the key and turn the key to ON - you'll hear the pump for a second or two - that will prime the fuel system.

Last, I doubt you ran it long enough for permanent damage, but it's bad to run overfull because excess pressure will build up, and there's only one way to relieve it - and that's past the piston rings.  So you're right, you might be due for some new plugs too.  If you pull them and they're black, there's your answer - oil - which has likely fouled your plugs.

Did you happen to notice any blue smoke when it ran last?  If you did, that'd be oil burning.

I bet if you drain out the excess, replace the plugs - it's probably OK.

You won't find an easy fix for excessive oil in the crankcase because it's not an easy fix.  Permanent damage can occur with the rings = engine out rebuild.

And don't feel bad - I'm about to rebuild an 87 XR100 to a 120cc (BBR Big Bore kit) because of the exact same issue - excess oil damaged the rings, and now with a new plug it runs for about 15 / 20 mins before the plug fouls and it won't run at all.

[betoney]

33 minutes ago, MarvisJablonski said:

I changed my oil back on Monday 8/30/2021 but I ran into some weird issues in the process. After draining out the oil (I'm pretty certain all the oil had drained out, but maybe I hallucinated this part) and replacing the oil filter with a new one, I replaced the drain bolt and started filling up with fresh oil. According to the owner's manual, it should take 2.7L of oil with a new filter. By the time I had poured in about 2.3L, oil started overflowing out of the hole where you fill the oil. It's entirely possible that I just have no idea how to measure oil, but I concluded that I had overfilled the oil. So I did the trick with the spray bottle attachment in order to pump out excess oil. After about 90 minutes of pumping the spray bottle, I could see in the sight glass that the oil level was within the tolerance. So I started the bike up and ran it for about 5 minutes and then I let the bike cool down for another 7ish minutes and the oil was still within the tolerance.

So what I’m guessing happened is that somehow I managed to put too much oil in the bike. I may have failed to measure the oil properly and/or I may have been hallucinating when I looked at the sight glass and saw what I thought was the oil level within the correct tolerance. I’m guessing the excessive oil destroyed my spark plugs (and possibly more components, up to and including maybe the whole motorcycle?).

IF you drained the old oil and only put in 2.3L there is no way that it could possibly be overflowing out of the fill hole, I suspect that while hallucinating 😋 you THOUGHT you drained the old oil and actually put in an additional 2.3L to what was already in there (considering it took 90 minutes to pump out excess oil to get it to a normal level on the sight glass).

Open the airbox and see if there is a lot of oil inside, it is normal to have traces of oil in there but there shouldn't be a pool of oil in the bottom.

How are you filling and checking the oil level? completely upright or tilted over on the side stand?  each will give you VERY different readings, and filling/checking it while on the side stand is WRONG. 

 

 

[peteinpa]

I'm going to ignore all red herrings and ask if you've had the valves adjusted.

They go way out of whack long before the first scheduled check.

If not done yet at 29k miles you might be in trouble.

[PhotoAl]

When I check the oil it is with the bike upright.  Every Japanese bike Ive owned is the same.  After an oil change run the engine for a few minutes, turn it off and let sit for 3 to 5 minutes.  Check oil level.  Every bike I've owned would be in the correct range after 3 to 5 minutes but after sitting overnight it would be above the full level.  I used to worry about it but stopped and just rode.

I'm mystified about the overfilling if you drained the oil - I always leave the pan till I'm done.  LOL on my last oil change I dumped in a couple of partially used quarts and then two quarts thinking it was 3.something.  Went and looked it up and thought oops so checked oil and it was just right whew!  I'm very precise with what I do to my bike but measuring the quantity of oil I put in is not something I do.  I drain the oil, remove the filter, clean everything put some oil in the new filter (as much as I can and still put it on without spilling any) fill it up with about the right amount, crank the bike and run it for a few minutes then wait 3 minutes (hey Siri set a timer for 3 minutes) and then add oil to get it to the top line.  

From your description it does not sound like you had too much oil in your bike when you made your trip.  Assuming you were checking with the bike upright and not on the side stand.  I'm thinking another issue with starting.  My bike was hard to start the other day after I washed it.  Took a number of seconds of cranking with the throttle full open to get it to start and it was grumpy about it but quickly settled down.  Only time it has done that.

Valves need to be checked if they haven't been already.

Others have done a great job of describing in painful detail about too much oil.  I'm going to hope that didn't happen to you and it is just a hard starting problem.  I would encourage you to develop meticulous habits in your motorcycle maintenance.  I do all my own work on mine and my life is on the line.  If i screw something up it could be very bad so I torque everything to spec (carefully) and always double check after careful reading and re-reading of the manual.  This forum is also a great place to learn as well.  Check out discussion of sprocket bolt torque settings.  While talking about torque, if you do not have a good quality torque wrench get one.  

[pilninggas]

I used to 'hallucinate' when working on bikes and cars - the empty beers bottle on the bench next to the vice, was always a dead give away that i'd been 'hallucinating' whilst spannering.....

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by pilninggas

[roadrash83]

12 hours ago, pilninggas said:

I used to 'hallucinate' when working on bikes and cars - the empty beers bottle on the bench next to the vice, was always a dead give away that i'd been 'hallucinating' whilst spannering.....

 

 

 You forgot the Bong!

[Skidood]

Have you tried cranking with the throttle held fully open?

[Rick123]

Turn the ignition key on and off 2-3 times and then try to start it. On today’s ride I stopped for a coffee. After about half of an hour I jumped on the bike. Ignition on. Turning but not firing up. 2 turns of the key on and off it started. It’s been not the first time. Perhaps 5-6 times within a year of ownership and 43 000km. Disappointing.  The same happened maybe 2 times in my 10 years of owning 13 V Stroms. Just saying.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Rick123

[Rick123]

On 10/14/2021 at 4:55 PM, knyte said:

A couple of things come to mind.

First, oil level in the sight glass is with the bike standing, not on the sidestand.

If this photo is of an upright bike, it's definitely overfull.  Your oil should be between the lines, which would be roughly here:

It's likely FAR faster to pull the drain plug to rid the excess.

Next, ensure the Run/Stop switch is on Run, then insert the key and turn the key to ON - you'll hear the pump for a second or two - that will prime the fuel system.

Last, I doubt you ran it long enough for permanent damage, but it's bad to run overfull because excess pressure will build up, and there's only one way to relieve it - and that's past the piston rings.  So you're right, you might be due for some new plugs too.  If you pull them and they're black, there's your answer - oil - which has likely fouled your plugs.

Did you happen to notice any blue smoke when it ran last?  If you did, that'd be oil burning.

I bet if you drain out the excess, replace the plugs - it's probably OK.

You won't find an easy fix for excessive oil in the crankcase because it's not an easy fix.  Permanent damage can occur with the rings = engine out rebuild.

And don't feel bad - I'm about to rebuild an 87 XR100 to a 120cc (BBR Big Bore kit) because of the exact same issue - excess oil damaged the rings, and now with a new plug it runs for about 15 / 20 mins before the plug fouls and it won't run at all.

Actually maximum level mark is right on the top of the glass and not as you marked it with red lines.

[knyte]

My bad, a bit tough to see the hash mark in the photo and I haven't looked at my bike in a few days...

Even so, it still looks overfull to me.

[BBB]

On main stand, drain the oil until the level is just below the top of the sight glass. Try to start the bike again.

If it turns over then it’s not the run switch. If it doesn’t fire at all watch the exhaust for any signs of smoke from the exhaust. Check the airbox as @betoneysuggested, there should only be a tiny bit of oil wetting the bottom of the box. If that doesn’t work, remove the plugs from the top by removing the airbox you just stared at, or removing the top bolts on the radiator and tilting it forward. New plugs are probably best if they are contaminated with oil.

Let us know how you are doing.