skipperT Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 (edited) Ok, some clarification... -As mentioned, replacing the cap requires replacing the cylinder head. They are a machined piece and not sold separately. -Helicoils (or a Recoil insert repair) are as strong or stronger than the original threads. Depending on who installs them, they are typically held in with red loctite and are VERY reliable when put in correctly. -you can’t just “replace the top end” on the CP3 engine. The cylinders are part of the upper crankcase and the pistons must be installed from the BOTTOM which means pulling the crank by loosening the connecting rods, which means lots of bolts have to replaced... it would probably be cheaper to buy a motor from a wrecked bike. - the collar with the new bolt and copper washer is correct. It gets installed in the RH rear location (when sitting on the bike). Only certain engine numbers get that portion of the update when installing an updated tensioner kit because Yamaha made a running change involving the oil passage to the tensioner. Hence why some get the new bolt and some don’t. There’s also a small seal which goes on the tensioner body too. -tight exhaust valves are TYPICAL. Don’t worry about it, just loosen them to the loose side of spec (if possible) and continue to ride it like you stole it. It is a bummer that someone cross threaded and over-torqued a bolt and left a mess instead of dealing with it properly. You may find some recourse with the dealer or Yamaha, but maybe not. At least you are making them aware of the situation. HTH, skip Edited June 1, 2021 by skipperT 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotVeryCreative16 Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 9 hours ago, Jayzonk said: The machine shop is going tobcost you a minimum of $300 (and likely $450) when you consider setup time, fitment, possible refinement of the part if it doesn't work. Highly suggest going with the new top end. Yeah, I'm realizing now this is probably not the best solution since it is aluminum and the welding would probably warp the cap and mess with fitment. I'm strongly considering high temperature JB weld to make new threads as it only needs to hold 7 ft lbs. I've read about others having this same issue with a valve cover bolt hole and fixing it with jb weld with no issues for years. 7 hours ago, skipperT said: Ok, some clarification... -As mentioned, replacing the cap requires replacing the cylinder head. They are a machined piece and not sold separately. -Helicoils (or a Recoil insert repair) are as strong or stronger than the original threads. Depending on who installs them, they are typically held in with red loctite and are VERY reliable when put in correctly. -you can’t just “replace the top end” on the CP3 engine. The cylinders are part of the upper crankcase and the pistons must be installed from the BOTTOM which means pulling the crank by loosening the connecting rods, which means lots of bolts have to replaced... it would probably be cheaper to buy a motor from a wrecked bike. - the collar with the new bolt and copper washer is correct. It gets installed in the RH rear location (when sitting on the bike). Only certain engine numbers get that portion of the update when installing an updated tensioner kit because Yamaha made a running change involving the oil passage to the tensioner. Hence why some get the new bolt and some don’t. There’s also a small seal which goes on the tensioner body too. -tight exhaust valves are TYPICAL. Don’t worry about it, just loosen them to the loose side of spec (if possible) and continue to ride it like you stole it. It is a bummer that someone cross threaded and over-torqued a bolt and left a mess instead of dealing with it properly. You may find some recourse with the dealer or Yamaha, but maybe not. At least you are making them aware of the situation. HTH, skip Thank you for your detailed reply. Helicoil and high temperature JB weld are the two solutions I'm considering at this point. The problem with a helicoil is that the collar around the bolt hole is broken, so I think I would have to put JB weld around that portion so there's not a portion of the helicoil exposed. Or perhaps this wouldn't be a problem? I'm really not sure what to do at this point, but I can imagine that purchasing a new motor and paying someone to swap it for me would be slightly out of my budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhs10 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 If you search for FZ-09 or FJ-09 cylinder head assembly on ebay, there are some reasonably priced assemblies. Yamaha FZ09 FJ09 Cylinder Head Top Engine Motor 2014-2016 B Part 1RC-11101-09-00 This is a used cylinder head for a 2014 to... Yamaha FZ09 FJ09 Fz 09 Cylinder Head Top Engine Motor 2014 2015 2016 Cams <p>Yamaha FZ09 FJ09 Fz 09 Cylinder... 1 '15 FJ-09 w/ lots of extras... Fayetteville, GA, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 9 hours ago, skipperT said: -you can’t just “replace the top end” on the CP3 engine. The cylinders are part of the upper crankcase... Can he replace the cylinder head, leave the rest alone? 1980 Yamaha 850 Triple (sold). Too many bikes to list, FJ-09 is next on my list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteinpa Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 (edited) Jeez, that sucks to find. I hope that's not waiting for me when I take my valve cover off. Mine had the update also. I switched to an APE manual tensioner so my next order I'll get the regular #27 bolt. Here's a pic of the cam chain kit. a #27 bolt is replaced with #33, #34, and #35 for more oil to the tensioner. Only takes one ham fisted moron to screw up fine machinery. Edited June 1, 2021 by peteinpa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: Can he replace the cylinder head, leave the rest alone? Yes. Sorry if I misunderstood you, by "replacing top end" that usually translates to Replace Pistons... for me anyway. -S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 3 hours ago, duhs10 said: If you search for FZ-09 or FJ-09 cylinder head assembly on ebay, there are some reasonably priced assemblies. Yamaha FZ09 FJ09 Cylinder Head Top Engine Motor 2014-2016 B Part 1RC-11101-09-00 This is a used cylinder head for a 2014 to... Yamaha FZ09 FJ09 Fz 09 Cylinder Head Top Engine Motor 2014 2015 2016 Cams <p>Yamaha FZ09 FJ09 Fz 09 Cylinder... Yep. Even just slapping a used camshaft cap in there is also a possibility. The right repair is to calculate oil clearances with plastigauge before installing and machine as necessary. Or bolt it in and cross your fingers. -S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotVeryCreative16 Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, peteinpa said: Jeez, that sucks to find. I hope that's not waiting for me when I take my valve cover off. Mine had the update also. I switched to an APE manual tensioner so my next order I'll get the regular #27 bolt. Here's a pic of the cam chain kit. a #27 bolt is replaced with #33, #34, and #35 for more oil to the tensioner. Only takes one ham fisted moron to screw up fine machinery. Can you give me a quick run down on the APE tensioner kit? Is this something I should do while I'm in there and am currently in need of the #33 bolt that's like $50? 4 hours ago, skipperT said: Yep. Even just slapping a used camshaft cap in there is also a possibility. The right repair is to calculate oil clearances with plastigauge before installing and machine as necessary. Or bolt it in and cross your fingers. -S I've thought about this, but it seems like I'd have to take the cylinder head out to have it machined properly. At that point, I might as well just replace the damn thing cause I'd have to order the whole cylinder head to get the camshaft cap. What do you think about the high temperature JB weld? It's a 7 ft lbs torque bolt so I'm not asking much of in that regard but obviously it will have to withstand the heat and oil. It's rated to be able to withstand continuous 2400 degrees. Edited June 1, 2021 by NotVeryCreative16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteinpa Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, NotVeryCreative16 said: Can you give me a quick run down on the APE tensioner kit? Is this something I should do while I'm in there and am currently in need of the #33 bolt that's like $50? I've thought about this, but it seems like I'd have to take the cylinder head out to have it machined properly. At that point, I might as well just replace the damn thing cause I'd have to order the whole cylinder head to get the camshaft cap. What do you think about the high temperature JB weld? It's a 7 ft lbs torque bolt so I'm not asking much of in that regard but obviously it will have to withstand the heat and oil. It's rated to be able to withstand continuous 2400 degrees. APE Pro is what I installed following this: How to install APE CCT. | Yamaha FZ-09 Forum There's is probably more than one way to install your APE CCT but this is... I didn't bother with the timing but did everything else. Edited June 1, 2021 by peteinpa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, NotVeryCreative16 said: What do you think about the high temperature JB weld? It’ll probably be fine if done properly and everything torques back up. Make sure none gets into any area or passage that contacts the oil surface of the camshaft. YMMV, -S Edited June 2, 2021 by skipperT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggy Nate Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) I would be getting it built back up with weld by a competent welder. If it is done slowly the distortion will be minimal at most. Bolting it down to a good copper plate as a heat sink will help here. I have welded up cases in the past with good success. As a mechanic I absolutely detest the thought of bog and ‘metal putty’. The thought if that crap swimming around in the motor if it comes loose freaks me out! Helicoils on the rest should be a permanent repair. I reckon I’ve done thousands of them in my life unfortunately! 😀 Edited June 13, 2021 by Buggy Nate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegg78 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 My .02$ - I’ve replaced a few valve cover stripped screw holes with Timeserts. I like them far more than helicoils for this work. It would be easy to pack in shop towels and such to keep shavings from getting bad places as well. https://www.timesert.com/ I had a similar issue as you with a bike I owned. Found a small oil leak and when I checked it out, found multiple stripped bolts and gasket compound all over trying to fix the leaks… what fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggy Nate Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Clegg78 said: My .02$ - I’ve replaced a few valve cover stripped screw holes with Timeserts. I like them far more than helicoils for this work. It would be easy to pack in shop towels and such to keep shavings from getting bad places as well.https://www.timesert.com/ I had a similar issue as you with a bike I owned. Found a small oil leak and when I checked it out, found multiple stripped bolts and gasket compound all over trying to fix the leaks… what fun! Only problem with timeserts is they are quite thick. The wall thickness on cam caps is often not thick enough to install. But I agree they are much stronger when installed properly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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